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	<title>Comments on: Pay-Per-Mile Car Insurance: It&#8217;s Coming.</title>
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	<link>http://satviz.com/uncategorized/pay-per-mile-car-insurance-its-coming/</link>
	<description>GPS Tracking for a Better Business ROI</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://satviz.com/uncategorized/pay-per-mile-car-insurance-its-coming/comment-page-1/#comment-1038</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://satviz.com/?p=102#comment-1038</guid>
		<description>Hello Bern,

Thanks for stopping by.  I'm amazed anyone reads this far back.  Sadly, not a lot of original thought has surfaced since I wrote this post so, so I guess it's all still what passes for 'current".  I did take alook at your blog and now it's added to my Google Reader ... recommended.

feel free to split all the hairs you wish to, I certainly do at times.  We're certainly in agreement on some things:

1.  You are certainly correct that "tracking' should be define more precisely.  Indeed that's one of my pet peeves ... GPS (or to be precise, the GPS Mission One package which is all the non-US DoD ever sees or can access) tracks _nothing_, ever.  There are two other "missions" aboard each GPS spacecraft which actually do perform some services that might fit the definition "tracking" but they won't be dealt with here and have nothing to do with the public).

The system provides the data which enable tracking, which is how most folks make the at times erroneous connection.

There is a variant of near real-time tracking where the "real' is significantly shifted in time which I had in mind when I penned the original article, though.  (it's made right close to you, see www.geotab.com).  There is _no_ datalink, and thus no direct cost of operation, yet the user of the system, at his/her control (literally local and key) would have the option of sharing the tracking data with those s/he chose to share it with ... an insurance company, a tolling agency, parking auhtority, whatever.  And there is no data transmission cost unless the user chose to opt for a data channel that does have a cost ... such as GPRS.

It is possible to contrive a PAYD scheme without tracking but it loses so much of it's potential "goodness" ... but yes, it is not practical to mak eit actually anonymous.  

This is what I had in mind when I originally started this thread.  But fear not, I don't sell this (or any other technology) any longer</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Bern,</p>
<p>Thanks for stopping by.  I&#8217;m amazed anyone reads this far back.  Sadly, not a lot of original thought has surfaced since I wrote this post so, so I guess it&#8217;s all still what passes for &#8216;current&#8221;.  I did take alook at your blog and now it&#8217;s added to my Google Reader &#8230; recommended.</p>
<p>feel free to split all the hairs you wish to, I certainly do at times.  We&#8217;re certainly in agreement on some things:</p>
<p>1.  You are certainly correct that &#8220;tracking&#8217; should be define more precisely.  Indeed that&#8217;s one of my pet peeves &#8230; GPS (or to be precise, the GPS Mission One package which is all the non-US DoD ever sees or can access) tracks _nothing_, ever.  There are two other &#8220;missions&#8221; aboard each GPS spacecraft which actually do perform some services that might fit the definition &#8220;tracking&#8221; but they won&#8217;t be dealt with here and have nothing to do with the public).</p>
<p>The system provides the data which enable tracking, which is how most folks make the at times erroneous connection.</p>
<p>There is a variant of near real-time tracking where the &#8220;real&#8217; is significantly shifted in time which I had in mind when I penned the original article, though.  (it&#8217;s made right close to you, see <a href="http://www.geotab.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.geotab.com</a>).  There is _no_ datalink, and thus no direct cost of operation, yet the user of the system, at his/her control (literally local and key) would have the option of sharing the tracking data with those s/he chose to share it with &#8230; an insurance company, a tolling agency, parking auhtority, whatever.  And there is no data transmission cost unless the user chose to opt for a data channel that does have a cost &#8230; such as GPRS.</p>
<p>It is possible to contrive a PAYD scheme without tracking but it loses so much of it&#8217;s potential &#8220;goodness&#8221; &#8230; but yes, it is not practical to mak eit actually anonymous.  </p>
<p>This is what I had in mind when I originally started this thread.  But fear not, I don&#8217;t sell this (or any other technology) any longer</p>
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		<title>By: Bern Grush</title>
		<link>http://satviz.com/uncategorized/pay-per-mile-car-insurance-its-coming/comment-page-1/#comment-1037</link>
		<dc:creator>Bern Grush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://satviz.com/?p=102#comment-1037</guid>
		<description>Dave: to split hairs, you use the word tracking loosely. A navigation system that reads GPS signals and determines where you are on a map is NOT tracking.  An asset management system or any device that reports [near] real-time positions back to a monitoring station IS tracking. Tolling for road-use, for parking and for PAYD Insurance does not require tracking and would be a foolish design for several reasons. (I can send papers.)  It is possible to build a tolling system for road use and for parking that is ANONYMOUS (i.e. not "just" private)  However, a PAYD data feed, however private and protected, could not be anonymous, since the rates are different for different drivers.  You could conceive of prepaid, anonymous PAYD, but it would be wildly expensive. grushhour[dot]com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave: to split hairs, you use the word tracking loosely. A navigation system that reads GPS signals and determines where you are on a map is NOT tracking.  An asset management system or any device that reports [near] real-time positions back to a monitoring station IS tracking. Tolling for road-use, for parking and for PAYD Insurance does not require tracking and would be a foolish design for several reasons. (I can send papers.)  It is possible to build a tolling system for road use and for parking that is ANONYMOUS (i.e. not &#8220;just&#8221; private)  However, a PAYD data feed, however private and protected, could not be anonymous, since the rates are different for different drivers.  You could conceive of prepaid, anonymous PAYD, but it would be wildly expensive. grushhour[dot]com</p>
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		<title>By: GPS for PAYD? Not the way Oregon is Heading &#124; GPS Tracking</title>
		<link>http://satviz.com/uncategorized/pay-per-mile-car-insurance-its-coming/comment-page-1/#comment-135</link>
		<dc:creator>GPS for PAYD? Not the way Oregon is Heading &#124; GPS Tracking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2006 16:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://satviz.com/?p=102#comment-135</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ve written about initiatives like this several times in the past: here and here: and here: to name a few. In general, these schemes are going under the acronym of PAYD &#8230; Pay As You Drive. There are many good potential good features for PAYD schemes, and many potential pitfalls.Now that I see how Oregon&#8217;s efforts are shaping up I am beginning to think the pitfalls are starting to win. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;ve written about initiatives like this several times in the past: here and here: and here: to name a few. In general, these schemes are going under the acronym of PAYD &#8230; Pay As You Drive. There are many good potential good features for PAYD schemes, and many potential pitfalls.Now that I see how Oregon&#8217;s efforts are shaping up I am beginning to think the pitfalls are starting to win. [...]</p>
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